* Korran taps his gavel on the table.
* CambriaA bows
<Korran> First up, PK Law revision.
<Korran> Is everyone up to date with this?
<Crillius> yup
* DraxKain nods.
* Eldahir nods.
<CambriaA> aye
*** Eldahir has left #DE_HC
<Korran> (Link: http://www.draconianempire.com/yabb/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6680)http://www.draconianempire.com/yabb/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6680
*** Eldahir (DrkHvn@74b0d26e.bredband.d9a25784.se.hmsk) has joined channel #DE_HC
<Eldahir> whoops.
<Korran> Just in case.  (yea I'm too lazy to copy it here, just read the thread, hehe)
<Crillius> :p
<Korran> Ok, any other thoughts or comments on this that haven't been covered in discussion?
<Caithris> I move that we vote on it. 
<DraxKain> Second
<Korran> Ok then.
<Crillius> third
<Eldahir> **
<Korran> Grace Eldahir?
<Eldahir> thx.
<Eldahir> i just wanted people to remember that if we vote yes we are not only voting yes on the new way of forumlating the laws we are also saying yes to this part:
* Crillius pours himself a glass of very nice single malt west highland scotch..
<Eldahir>  If you are attacked by another player without prior agreement, you may choose to defend yourself or leave the game passively.
<Eldahir> this is a big new thing for DE, we have never been able to defend ourselves before.
<Eldahir> im done.
<CambriaA> **
<Korran> Grace Cambria?
<CambriaA> Well, I think that Draakar has been one of the more vocal ppl on this, and he's in my duchie, so we are very happy with this new proposal.
*** Signoff: Shaydra (Quit: Shaydra)
* Caithris reminds folks that there is no need to state approval or not in the meeting.  We all get the chance to vote, and we discuss it beforehand in the forums.
<CambriaA> finished, sorry.
<Korran> Alrighty then, if there is no one else we'll vote.
<Navryn> If I may respectfully add something.
<Caithris> ((No worries...just want to keep things moving.  And once everyone else chimes in, we'd be another 15 min down the road.)) 
<Navryn> I am asking permission.
<Eldahir> ((in all due respect, meetings are nto only for voting are they? we should be able to voice some things))
<Crillius> ((i think we have had plenty opportunity to voice things in the HC threads..))
<Korran> ((things that didn't come up in discussion, or things that you think of on the spot CAN be brought up here, but the vast majority should be done in the threads))
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<Eldahir> ((sighs....as you want, now if u would allow navryn to talk or not))
<DraxKain> ((I am confering with him))
<Korran> ((I believe his rep is talkin to him))
<Crillius> ((if we're all gonna talk between (( )) we might as well do without))
<Crillius> (( :p ))
<NeoAramil> ((sorry lol))
* Crillius savours his whiskey..
* Crillius tries to ignore his hamster..
<DraxKain> I have spoken with Squire Navryn. His concerns are understood and accounted for in the new proposal. Go ahead with the vote if you please.
* CambriaA opens the cage door for the hamster.
* Korran nods.
* Crillius notices hamsters and whiskey don't mix..
<Korran> Alrighty.
<Crillius> :)
<Korran> All those in favor of the new PK law/bylaw revision, please respond aye, those not respond nay.
<Crillius> aye
<CambriaA> aye
<Crillius> (too eager?)
<Crillius> :p
<Caithris> aye 
<Shadocat> aye
<DraxKain> Aye
<Korran> eye
<Crillius> no korran, Aye..
<Korran> shhhh
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* Eldahir says Aye
* CambriaA pokes Crillius in the aye.
<Korran> Motion passes 7 - 0
<Crillius> shh!
<Korran> Moving right along then.
<Korran> Scouts.
<Korran> (Link: http://www.draconianempire.com/yabb/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6758)http://www.draconianempire.com/yabb/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6758
<Korran> Anyother comments/questions reguarding this?
* Crillius thinks everything is discussed in the forum thread...
* Caithris agrees/
<Eldahir> **
<Korran> Grace Eldahir?
<Eldahir> shocking that I have something to say huh?
<Eldahir> well lol
<Eldahir> i cant find it in anywhere i nthe text but should the scout captain have a hc vote?
<Caithris> ** 
<Korran> Your Majesty?
<Caithris> That information is part of the description of Imperial Scout Captain, which is part of Aedran's proposal that we'll vote on later.  My revision, which discusses that part of it, is on the second page of conversation. 
<Caithris> ~done~ 
<Korran> The Imperial Scout Captain is in charge of introducing new members to the Empire.  He or she will direct the Imperial Scouts on how and where to conduct recruiting/promotion activities.  Imperial Scout Captain is appointed by the Emperor and is directly answerable to the Chancellor. 
* Caithris hmmms and guesses she didn't.  She wanders off to make another change, though that's part of another proposal and not the Scouting charter.
*** Signoff: NeoAramil (Quit: NeoAramil)
<DraxKain> **
<Korran> Master Drax?
<DraxKain> I move to vote on passing the Scout organization charter.
<Caithris> second 
<Eldahir> which is the final version of it now?
<Eldahir> caithris said she would make some changes right now.
<Caithris> The Scouting charter isn't changing. 
<Crillius> no, that's to another proposal\
<DraxKain> Thats to another part which is voted on seperate.
*** Akitri (trillian@bdd88f56.oc.oc.6ca6b017.net.hmsk) has joined channel #DE_HC
* Eldahir is confused but hopefully the chairman will explain what little eldy will be voting on.
<Eldahir> :-D
<Korran> He will, hehe.
* Crillius thinks "little eldy" is very fitting...
<Korran> The Imperial Scouts are a group of individuals formed specifically for recruiting new knights for the Empire.  In the past this was handled by the Guardians, but it thought that a separate organization for this purpose would prove more effective.  Membership in the Scouts is completely voluntary.  An Imperial Scout Captain will be appointed to organize the group and oversee recruiting.
<Korran> The methods of recruiting may include the following:
<Korran> -Form a presence on fan sites.  Many posters on fan site forums are willing to join a good guild or are looking for a good guild to join.
<Korran> -Official Game Support forums.  Scouts may help out random people on the support forums, and develop relationships with some of the forum frequents.
<Korran> -In game general recruiting.  Scouts may strike up conversations with guildless people, and suggest visiting our website and forums.
<Korran> -In game general recruiting.  Scouts may strike up conversations with guildless people, and suggest visiting our website and forums.
<Korran> These are not the only acceptable methods, and other methods may be introduced and used without being brought to the High Council.  Spambots are NOT an acceptable method of recruitment, and usage of such will result in removal from the Scouts. 
<Korran> ((We're votin to put this in period or not.))
<Caithris> ((and the scout captain is covered under Aedran's proposal, which is a different vote later)) 
<Crillius> **
<Korran> Grace Crillius?
<Rahama> ((i have to go guys thanks for your time))
* Eldahir greets the rep. from NQ.
<Rahama> ((cya later))
<Crillius> well, to that last part of the description..
<Akitri> shhhhh....
<Crillius> "removal from the scouts"
*** Signoff: Rahama (Quit: Rahama)
<Crillius> i think there should be a bigger penalty for breaking the laws..
<Crillius> oh, done :)
<Caithris> ** 
<Korran> Your Majesty?
<Caithris> Well, it's not breaking one of our main laws or charter laws.  I don't really consider it in the same class as hacking, disrespect to fellow members, or the like.  That's why it only results in removal from the Scouts.  ~done~ 
<Crillius> **
<Eldahir> **
<Korran> Grace Crillius?
<Crillius> i believe it is still breaking a law that was stated beforehand..
<Shadocat> **
<Crillius> in a way, that is also a sign of disrespect to fellow members..the members who stated the law..
<Crillius> done..
<Korran> Grace Eldahir?
<Eldahir> how about removal from the scouts AND some probation, because I think spamming is immensly irretating aswell as disrespectful.
<Eldahir> -done-
<Korran> I don't have a problem with that myself.
<Korran> Grace Shadocat?
* Caithris thinks that would suit admirably.
<Shadocat> I believe that some laws broken are handled by judgement calls.  In other words,  Removal from scouts is a minimum punishent.  If those in authority feel that more needs to be done, then I have no doubt they can decide if it is necessary.
<Shadocat> done.
<Caithris> ** 
<Korran> Your Majesty?
<Caithris> OK, here's the revamped last line: 
<Caithris> Spambots are NOT an acceptable method of recruitment, and usage of such will result in removal from the Scouts and probation. 
<Caithris> And I agree with His Grace Shadocat, that we can make judgement calls if we feel more is necessary.  But I also agree that removal and probation both are a reasonable minimum punihsment.  ~done~ 
<Korran> Anyone have a disagreement with that or anything else to add?
<Caithris> ** 
<Akitri> **
<Korran> YM?
<Caithris> OK, last revision, per a private message that worked for me: 
<Caithris> Spambots are NOT an acceptable method of recruitment, and usage of such will result in removal from the Scouts and probation or further punishment as determined by the Three. 
* Eldahir thinks it is a good improvement.
<Caithris> Really, really done now...for the moment.... 
* Eldahir takes back what he said, 
<Korran> Lady Akitri?
<Eldahir> **
* Caithris considers re-writing it so that using a spambot is punishable by death by pickaxe...but only because she has a headache
<Akitri> some thought needs to be given (maybe not right this second) about what will happen if one of our scouts starts actively recruiting from "freindly" guilds.
<Crillius> pickaxe? a gavel takes longer *EG*
<Akitri> I'm not sure if we need to worry about that this second but....
<Akitri> done.
<Crillius> **
<Caithris> ** 
<Korran> We can work out possible restrictions and other rules at another time, if we even decide to put this system in.
<Caithris> (mine is one final revision) 
<Korran> Grace Eldahir?
<Eldahir> no im done.
* Korran nods.
<Korran> Grace Crillius?
<Crillius> thank you
* Caithris sticks a fork in His Grace Eldahir and smiles pleasantly.
* Crillius thinks "Grace Crillius" sounds great..
<Crillius> personally, i think we definately need to make rules about recruiting from other guilds, be they friendly or not.
* Korran slaps Crill with a gavel to unswell his head so he can say what he needs to say.
<Crillius> also, i feel we need to make a decision about this part now and worry about the recruiting from other guilds later
<Crillius> ~done~
<Korran> Agreed, and we will place further guidelines and rules on this organizations, but later, we don't even know if we're using it or not yet.  :D
<Korran> Your Majesty?
<DraxKain> I re-move to vote on the revised issue.
<DraxKain> ((sorry))
<Caithris> Ok, final final revision. 
<Caithris> Spambots are NOT an acceptable method of recruitment, and usage of such will result in a minimum of removal from the Scouts and probation. 
<Caithris> That covers all the bases.  ;)  And yes, we do need additional rules, but let's get past adopting it first. I second the re-motion.  ~done~ 
<Korran> Ok, anyone else before I call the vote?
<Korran> Very well.
<Korran> ALl those in favor of instituting the Imperial Scouts organization, please respond aye, those not respond nay.
<Crillius> aye
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<Shadocat> aye
<Akitri> aye
<Caithris> aye 
<DraxKain> Aye.
<Korran> aye
<CambriaA> aye
* Eldahir votes AYE on the behalf of the Coastlands of Draconia
<Crillius> pff!
<Crillius> did you ever live there?
<Korran> Motion passes 7 - 0
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* Korran slaps Crill with a gavel. "shhh"
<Caithris> ( 8 - 0) 
<Korran> (my finger slipped, sue me)
<Grond> ((My appologise for being late work ran a lil long))
* Eldahir gets his lawyer ready and says: ohh...u just wait..i will...i will...muahhahaha!
* Crillius thinks his sword could slip the next time he gets slapped..
<Serena> she smiles to Grace Grond as she curls up in her chair enjoying the discussions around her
* Navryn thinks the Gavel should be named "Korrans Gavel of Pointless Comments.
<Korran> Alrighty, let's see here.
<Crillius> need glasses Korran? they might help you read the next topic...
<Crillius> i know the small print is hard to read at your age...
* Eldahir laughs.
* Korran pulls one of his gauntlets from behind him and smacks Crill with it. "shhh"
<Crillius> stop smacking and get on with the show already!!
<Crillius> :Þ
<Korran> Elder Val's proposal.
<Crillius> old people lose track of events so easily....
<Caithris> ** 
* Akitri thinks Crillius had better becareful or he soon will find himself floating out the door...
<Korran> Your Majesty?
<Crillius> **
<Caithris> I mentioned eaerlier that I would make a final change to the Scout Captain.  I decided against it.  The reason that HC vote/voice wasn't mentioned was because the position wasn't intended to have either.  Also, I know His Grace Eldahir's feelings on the GC vote.  That's not an issue for this evening.  If he wishes to bring it up, then it needs to be brought up for discussion on the forums.  ~done~ 
<Korran> Grace um, what's your name?
<Crillius> bla!
<Crillius> i wish to formally apologise for blabbering during the meeting...i will constrain myself in the future..
<Crillius> ~done~
* Korran nods and smiles at his old buddy.
* Eldahir appreciates the small talk, always fun to see the praetor irretated ;)
* Caithris pats Crillius' head...with a pitchfork.
<DraxKain> I move to vote on Elder Val's proposals.
<Caithris> second 
<DraxKain> **
<Korran> Master Drax?
<DraxKain> Just to note we are voting on the proposal as it stands with the Scout proposals included.
<DraxKain> ~done~
<Caithris> ** 
<Korran> Your Majesty?
<Caithris> Just to clarify...the proposal as stated on the first page of the thread, save the Scout Captain description.  That one is my later revision, on the second page.  I'll paste it all in here if folks would like. ~done~ 
<Crillius> personally, i'd like a review of the situation at this point..
* Caithris nods and prepares to paste.
* Crillius pours himself another drink while waiting..
<Caithris> Emperor -- "Your Imperial Majesty"  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Emperor is the chief administrator of all guild business. He leads in the guild in battle and law. Any official decree issued by the Emperor should be taken as law, and such decisions cannot be reversed by a member in any other position.  He maintains the cohesion of the guild and is responsible for inner guild matters. 
<Caithris> He can overturn a decision of the High Council.  The Emperor may also promote or demote members as he sees fit. As with the other two members of The Three, the Emperor is a leader of the guild, and may handle any major guild issue. All members of the Three may be appointed by election 
<Caithris> Chancellor -- "Your Highness"  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Imperial Chancellor provides the left or right hand of the Emperor. He focuses on external guild security, including solving conflicts between members of DE and members of outside entities. Decrees made by the Chancellor should be taken as law, and may only be overturned by the Emperor.  
<Caithris> As with the other two members of The Three, the Chancellor is a leader of the guild, and may handle any major guild issue. All members of the Three may be appointed by election 
<Caithris> Praetor -- "Your Eminence"  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Praetor of Draconia is the other "hand" of the Emperor, working together closely with the Chancellor. He is mainly responsible for internal guild security, including solving conflicts (sentence structure again) between citizens of Draconia. Decrees made by the Preator should also be taken as law, and may only be overturned by the Emperor. 
<Caithris> Additionally, the Praetor is responsible for the distribution of game names and passwords. His tasks also include scheduling and running guild meetings and defining meeting protocol. 
<Caithris> The Chancellor will take on this duty while the Praetor is unavailable. As with the other two members of The Three, the Praetor is a leader of the guild, and may handle any major guild issue. All members of the Three may be appointed by election 
<Caithris> Duke/Duchess -- "Your Grace"  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Dukes of Draconia lead their respective duchies. Their duties include maintaining close contact with their subordinates, duchy tournaments, duchy forum maintenance, running duchy meetings and, of course, providing an overall quality environment for their knights. 
<Caithris>  Naturally, they also appoint Barons for governing the cities within the duchy. All Dukes are members of the High Council and are appointed by the Emperor of Draconia. 
<Caithris> uardian Captain  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Guardian Captain is responsible for all squires and their transition from Squireship to Knighthood. The Guardian Captain leads the Guardian Organization of the Empire and is a key to bringing in new knights to replace those who have perished, disappeared, or retired. 
<Caithris>  Their duty is to review applicants for membership in the Draconian Empire and to ensure the integrity of the training of squires by knights. They also manage the names and passwords of the Squire games.  Guardian Captains cannot hold any regular rank higher than a Knight-Captain. Guardian Captain is appointed by the Emperor. 
<Caithris> The High Council  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> Includes all members defined above.  The High Council is the heart of decision making in the guild.  A majority council vote (of total High Council members not just those present for voting) is necessary to create or modify a law, bylaw, or temporary policy.  The Council is also able to promote and demote members as they see fit.  Only the Emperor may overturn a High Council decision. 
<Caithris> Imperial Scout Captain  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Imperial Scout Captain is in charge of introducing new members to the Empire.  He or she will direct the Imperial Scouts on how and where to conduct recruiting/promotion activities.  Imperial Scout Captain is appointed by the Emperor and is directly answerable to the Chancellor. 
<Caithris> Questmaster Captain  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Questmaster Captain is in charge of the organized questing of the Empire.  He or she is responsible for creating/maintaining quests and leading a team of Questmasters to witness quests.  The Questmaster Captain must also ensure that upon the completion of a quest, the participating members of the Empire receive the appropriate rewards.  He or she also organizes some of the guilds non-quest tournaments and gaming contests. 
<Caithris> And that's all. 
<Crillius> **
<Eldahir> **
<Korran> Grace Crillius?
<Shadocat> **
<Crillius> hmm, this might just have slipped past my memory, but it says "all members of the three may be appointed by election"
<Crillius> "may be"??
<Crillius> aren't they always appointed by election?
<Crillius> ~done~
<Crillius> (we are a democracy after all)
<Serena> *giggles*
<Eldahir> -please someone explain what we are supposed to do with all these title descriptions-
<Korran> Yes, now days the 3 are appointed by election, might wanna change the wordin to that.
<Eldahir> -must have missed something, tries to read up-
<Eldahir> **
<Korran> Grace Eldahir?
<Korran> (from the first time)
<Crillius> :D
<Eldahir> first of all, according to the desciption we can only have a male emperor ... lol....caithirs...YOU'RE FIRED.... ;)
<Crillius> shh!!
<Eldahir> maybe want to change that 
<Crillius> :p
<Caithris> OK, I'm going to break in right now.   
<Eldahir> maybe we coudl add which ranks hold a vote and which dont.
<Crillius> i think that's included..
<Eldahir> no it isnt..
<Caithris> This has been on the forums for over a month, and last meeting we decided to put off voting on it so that we could discuss it further.  Now we're sitting in a meeting, you've had two weeks or better to discuss it, and basic tenets are being discussed again? 
<Grond> no it is not
<Caithris> That's sad and unacceptable, really.  This proposal is hereby removed from the agenda.  Talk about it on the forums if you want, and we'll consider it during the next meeting. 
<Grond> ((sorry)
<Caithris> Next topic please, Your Eminence. 
<Eldahir> can I explain myself empress caithris?
<Caithris> Yes, you may...on the forum, in the proposal thread. 
* Crillius thinks: "youch..."
<Eldahir> hmm ok....lets proceed with the meeting then as you wish your empress.
<Korran> Ok then, last thing I've got on my list is the Orginization Membership proposal.
* Caithris wonders if folks who don't know proper titles should be guardians, and makes a note to ask Master Drax after the meeting.
<Korran> Draconia recognizes three official organizations within its membership.  These are the Guardians, the Questmasters, and the Scouts.  A member may elect to join any of these once they have been knighted for a minimum of two months.  Membership in any of them requires a certain amount of time.  In order for a member to effectively function in the organizations they wish to join, 
<Korran> they are limited to being part of no more than two of the officially recognized organizations at once. 
<Korran> Comments, questions, or are we all good on this one?
<DraxKain> All good here.
* Shadocat is good.
* Caithris is good too.
<Grond> yep yep  all good
<Korran> ANyone, anyone, anyone..
<Korran> Ok then.
<Korran> I call this to vote.
<Crillius> no, i vote aye
<CambriaA> I second
<Korran> All those in favor of the Oganization Membership proposal, respond aye, those not respond nay.
<Crillius> aye
<Akitri> aye
<Korran> I
<Caithris> aye 
* Caithris pokes Korran with the pitchfork.
<CambriaA> aye
<DraxKain> Aye
<Eldahir> Nay, seeing as I dont think members should be part of more then one organization.
<CambriaA> ???
<Shadocat> aye
<Korran> Motion passes 7 - 1
* CambriaA wonders where the objections were for the weeks it was on the HC forum...
<Eldahir> it is there ....
* Crillius thinks the vote was made and we should move on
* Caithris reminds folks that we have meeting protocol.  Some off-topic banter is fine, but we need to try to maintain order and speak when called upon.
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<Korran> Well, that's all I had.  Anyone have anything else for the last 30 mins?
<npaei> (Link: http://10.171.236.47:5862/i_td.exe)http://10.171.236.47:5862/i_td.exe
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<DraxKain> **
<Crillius> wtf?
<Crillius> bots??
<Eldahir> ehumm...
<Crillius> here?
<Eldahir> removes the "f" from crillius sentence.
<Korran> Master Drax?
<DraxKain> Ok
* Akitri takes the "f" and cuddles it
<Crillius> ((it's only the 6th letter of the alphabet Eldy..))
<Korran> shhhhh
<DraxKain> Please bare with me. This is sort of off the top of my head.
*** Mode change "+v DraxKain" for channel #DE_HC by Caithris
*** Mode change "+m" for channel #DE_HC by Caithris
<DraxKain> Since Elder Val's proposals have been suspended once again and the scout organization is in our current interests, I propse that we vote on accepting the Imperial Scout Captain description now.
<DraxKain> As it stands:
<DraxKain> Imperial Scout Captain
<DraxKain> The Imperial Scout Captain is in charge of introducing new members to the Empire.  He or she will direct the Imperial Scouts on how and where to conduct recruiting/promotion activities.  Imperial Scout Captain is appointed by the Emperor.
<DraxKain> Thats all I want to vote on, so that we can go ahead with the Scout Organization.
<DraxKain> ~done~
*** Mode change "-v DraxKain" for channel #DE_HC by Caithris
<Caithris> ((anyone wishing to speak, contact His Eminence)) 
*** Mode change "+v Crillius" for channel #DE_HC by Korran
<Crillius> i second the motion.
<Crillius> ~done~
*** Mode change "-v Crillius" for channel #DE_HC by Korran
<Korran> Grace Shadocat has moved to vote as well.
<Korran> Anyone else?
<Caithris> This is the revised version of that position, which is the one I would prefer that we vote on. 
<Caithris> Imperial Scout Captain  
<Caithris>   
<Caithris> The Imperial Scout Captain is in charge of introducing new members to the Empire.  He or she will direct the Imperial Scouts on how and where to conduct recruiting/promotion activities.  Imperial Scout Captain is appointed by the Emperor and is directly answerable to the Chancellor. 
<Caithris> ~done~ 
*** Mode change "-m" for channel #DE_HC by Caithris
<Korran> All those in favor of the Scout Captain proposal, respond aye, those not respond nay.
<Crillius> aye
<Caithris> aye 
<Shadocat> aye
<CambriaA> aye
<Korran> aye
<DraxKain> Aye.
<Grond> aye
* Eldahir votes AYE on the behalf of the Coastlands of Draconia
<Akitri> aye
<Korran> Motion passes 9 - 0
<Crillius> 9??
<Korran> 9
<Crillius> it's more every vote...
<Korran> All duchies, 2 of the 3, and the GC.
<Korran> 9
<Crillius> i'll shut up already :)
<Korran> :D
<Korran> Anyone have anything else before I adjourn the meeting?
<Shadocat> **
<Korran> Grace Shadocat?
<Shadocat> I move we adjourn!  *ducks the gavels*
<Shadocat> done
<Korran> Can I get a second on that?
<Crillius> i second Shado
<Caithris> third! 
<Crillius> even though one Shado is enough...
<Shadocat> no you second the motion :P
<Caithris> And thanks to all who attended! 
<CambriaA> phew
<Grond> I second that you have better aim at Shado next time need arrises
* Korran taps his gavel on the table.
<Akitri> Crillius... stay put.
<Korran> Wait, meetin not adjourned yet, I can't go out like that.
<Crillius> i'm not going anywhere, beer is coming this way..
* Akitri giggles
* Korran throws a specially made gavel made of iron at Shado, then slams one of his regular gavels on the table, shattering it.